iPod Shuffle vs Sandisk MP3

Cute little Sandisk player! I like the quality of Sansa players. Recently I've purchased Sansa Fuze on http://go.shopsansa.com/ instead of my old Sansa 512MB. I think Sansa is better than iPod

hey my name is Amaan and i need ur help there is some problem with my sandisk 1gb mp3. when i have connected it to system and when i m clicking on it its coming like insert a disk. kindly solve my problem.

Where can you get the Sandisk player for $45?

I'm thinking of buying one of these and not real familiar with either. I went to Circuit City and they have a mp3 6gb for $300, and an ipod 30 gb for $300. Obviously 30 gb is better than 6gb but which one should I get??? Which one is better as far as options, sound, and etc.

I got the Sandisk Player about 1 week ago and i LOVE it. i later found out by reading this how expensive it was for you all...(i got it for $45) i dont have many songs on it (26) but i look online every night for more songs. the only thing on the ipod i like more than the sandisk is that the ipods thinner and you dont have to use a cord to plug in it to the computer.

An FM player? - Kind of defeats the purpose of having an mp3 player. A built-in display? - As a runner I have no use for one. A built-in equalizer - huh? That's a bit like saying "built-in volume". And if anyone ever catches me using one of those pompous voice recorders I'd like to be shot dead on the spot and buried promptly without ceremony. I'll pay the extra $16 just to never have to change a battery, and to have a better product. If you want to talk smack about Apple's larger, overpriced iPods then I'm right there with you but you're off the mark on this one Dave. There's no better deal out there than the Shuffle.

"While it connects via USB, the player appears to have a non-standard connector, so it won't connect directly to a PC's USB port, just the bundled cable."

I like it, but it appears Sony designers simply do not "get it". Why would I want to carry a cable around with me? I just don't get this mentality, it boggles the mind, the only reason that you would make it take the form factor of a flash USB drive is to make it act like a flash USB drive. sigh.........

I like the way the Sandisk sounds and the Creative MuVo N200. However, will they be able to play tracks in the format AAC?

Oh and i forgot they even sell a charger.

***What about battery replacement?***

This is probably the biggest problem with any apple mp3 player. YOu don't have to have it professionally installed, there is insturctions to do it on cnet.com and looks pretty simple. But it is a hassle. IMO i still think you save money going with the shuffle even though you may/may not need to buy a new one, why? batteries will cost a small fortune when you need to constantly replace them, with apple no batteries are needed. True when traveling this may/may not be a problem, but when i travel my mp3 player does not often come with me, and if it does well there is the battery backup or a computer somewhere nearby.

At least Apple admits that rechargeables have a finite life, and has a rescue plan. I don't imagine the same is true for all rechargeable devices. As it happens, I have a dead iPaq...

What about battery replacement? I heard that the ipod battery costs $29, and has to be professionally installed, bringing the cost to almost $100. That's as much as the player cost in the first place. Might as well just get a new one. Is this true? That's a lot of AAA batteries!

"there is a battery back up that you can buy for the shuffle"

Indeed, but have you seen it? It's not very pretty, or compact, and it costs $30! It holds two AAA's and lasts 20 hours. My Cowon goes for 30 hours on its own battery, which is already in the player...

Still, it's horses for courses - I don't want a rechargeable player, so I haven't got one. Some might.

***Can Shuffle carry 1GB files (like movies)?***

Yes it can, it does so faster and without a cord. And fits in your pocket where most normal people put it.

**if I'm away from home and the battery runs down, I can just slot in another!**

Very good point, but there is a battery back up that you can buy for the shuffle if you want this option.

I was too excited about fixing the crackling sound so I said it was perfect then. It's not perfect but it's very very good.
I was researching headphones for the Sandisk (not too expensive 'cuz it's not worth it I think) and ended up buying Sennhieser PMX60 (only good reviews). These are behind-the-neck very light type. Good for running. Still waiting for the shipment.
No doubt the Sandisk is the best value!
Can Shuffle carry 1GB files (like movies)?

I'm not sure the Muvo display is as good as the Sandisk, but they both have their strengths - there is an amazing amount of choice in this area.

I would favour either over the Shuffle, not just because of the display or the radio (or the fact that white earphones might get me mugged), but because if I'm away from home and the battery runs down, I can just slot in another!

Size does not matter when it’s on your arm. How can the Shuffle be an option when you cant do the basics like play lists or sort your albums into folders! The Sandisk is not perfect but after the firmware upgrade and a decent pair of ear phones it is better than the Shuffle.

The Creative MuVo N200 series is actually just as cheap and comes with everything you need including a decent ear phones and better sound quality. I wish I had gone for that now :'(

The Sandisk is too big compared to the Shuffle. It's more than twice as thick (.82 versus .33 inches). It's wider (1.28 versus .98). Overall, the volume is 3.1 cubic versus just 1.06 for the Shuffle. Yes, the Sandisk is three times larger by volume! It also weighs 78 percent more than the Shuffle.

Also, who wants to keep replacing those AAA batteries! Or carry around a USB cable.

The geeks will NEVER get it. The shuffle is going to bury the sandisk. BURY

Firmware Update (sorry I posted the wrong link)

http://www.sandisk.com/retail/dap-firmware.asp

Good review :)

The Creative MuVo N200 has a radio and line-in (direct MP3 encoding), and is very neatly packaged. Funnily enough, I found a brief comparison with the Shuffle here:

http://www.pacificspirit.com/blog/2005/01/11/ipod_shuffle_vs_creative_muvo_n200

in which the author complains that the MuVo doesn't have the shuffle option! There's no pleasing some people...

I found crackling at 192 WMA but MP3 128 is fine... get fix from site.
http://www.sandisk.com/retail/drivers.asp

The Sandisk is not perfect...

The Sandisk head/ear phones really are terrible! (tinny and lightweight). I got some Sennheiser MX400 for $15/Ł10 and the sound is very very very good!

The navigation is counter intuitive (but at least you get navigation Apple).

The joystick should have been made with a rubble tip cos it hurts my sensitive new aged manly hands.

Better than Ipod Shuffles YES. But come on Creative MuVo TX 512MB (no radio) surely is an option? Has anyone got that?

You all, I just solved the Sandisk 1GB MP3 player problem!!! It's absolutely perfect now!
It was so easy, I'm embarrassed...
Just go to the sandisk website, look for the player, click on the firmware link and read the instructions. It is so easy to upgrade it's firmware (v.1.02). And after that, it's a beauty. No crackling sound at any point what so ever!
Enjoy the quality and savings.

I just purchased SanDisk 1GB MP3 player.
I does have that crackling sound when the song title hits the left edge of the display. I read that new firmware got rid of this bug. Does it mean that my SanDisk is old, should I return it?
I noticed that the the buggy sound is heard only while playing MP3 128kbps songs. MP3 192hbps don't have that problem. So people could go either with 64WMA or higher quality MP3's.
Can anybody comment on the firmware tho?
How can I find out the number of my Sandisk firmware?

Ok after reading about the sound quality issue, and knowing first hand the sound quality of the ipod, (its top notch without and fiddling with) I decided to do some research on the Sandisk. And low and behold I found as I stated a design issue flaw with the Sandisk sound quality.

"periodic distortion (crackling sound) that occurs when the beginning of the scrolling file name reaches the left side of the display"

You may read about this comment here:
http://www.epinions.com/content_167419809412

Or you can read some others comments about the same problem at the main page:
http://www.epinions.com/pr-SanDisk_SDMX1_1GB_MP3_Player/display_~reviews

While I do agree that by a mere glance the Sandisk does look like a better player, as I have stated before, build quality is a BIG issue. There is a stated work around for the issue for those of you that already has one, so you may read about it also at those url's.

If you need a screen check out this one.
http://www.epinions.com/pr-iRiver_iFP-790_256MB_MP3_Player/display_~reviews

Not my reccomendation or anything, but I can't see how you could go wrong. ^^
Peace
Dante

See, here is the one thing that all of you just don't seem to understand. "My has Mp3 player does this!" and "This Mp3 player does that!" Big deal people, really, big deal. What you people are miserably failing to realize is the importance of Sound Quality. All of you can rave all day long about how your ipod does this or how your iriver does that, but when it comes down to it, what it really is used for is Listening to the music and there is no greater feature to include in any player than good sound quality. And just to let you know once again for those who haven't heard it straight from Dave (and now from myself as I own the Sandisk Mp3 player) that any of the ipod units do not have any equalization settings. That is a Huge factor when it comes to sound quality. The Sandisk has it and so do many other brands but sadly the ipod's do not. I was going to jump on the "hip factor" band wagon and buy an ipod but when I found out they don't have a simple equalization setting, I said Hell NO! Some may say "what are you talking about, the ipod's support lossless formats". Doesn't matter people, the bass will sound just as flat on a lossless format as a 64bit rate song. Go ahead now, run along and catch up to that hip wagon and follow all the other followers because you'll be stuck listening to the lower end of the spectrum.

Dave. Can you check something out for me - prompted by the new Napster offering. People complain that i-Tunes is very strict. It also seems that it is the only manager of DRM. WMA players seem to rely on the intelligence of the player itself. This is how Napster can do what they do. The WMA format seems stronger because the players are smarter. Is the i-Pod a dumb player? Apple may have done this to splash the market, but i-Tunes may not be able to match the Napster unlimitted download offer (which will be available from others like MusicMatch soon).

You may ask if WMA devices are so smart, why can't I use my iPaq for DRM music (on SD cards)? Get WMplayer 10 for Pocket PC and whamo, back in business.

FWIW, I bought a Cowon (probably branded JetAudio in the US) CW-300. Not the latest model by any means, but affordable and with the features I want, viz: replaceable AA battery (30 hour life), decent recordable FM radio and voice recorder. The sound quality is excellent (hardware decoded), it stores the files in individually accessible folders and it is beautifully packaged.

I don't want it to double as a USB drive - I've got one of those, and I'd rather keep my data files separate anyway.

I think the Shuffle will raise the profile of flash players to everyone's benefit, but Apple are late to the market with something that seems different just for the sake of it. The styling is neat enough, but there are some much prettier players about, if that's important to you and, as I've said before, a device isn't truly portable if you have to plug it in!

This is my idea of stylish:
http://www.benq.co.uk/Products/mp3player/index.cfm?product=498

Interesting review and followup.

However, in my opinion The review is inherently flawed for two reasons:

1. Your *wife* should be the reviewer, not you. It's her requirements that have to be met/exceeded/not met, not yours.

2.You're comparing apples and oranges (excude the pun). Because of the price point you've mistakenly assumed (and based your whole house-of-cards on) that the two players are functionally equivalent and designed for the same purpose. They clearly aren't.

The SanDisk player is designed along the same fundamental precepts as the iPod Mini, not the shuffle. A comparison of those two players will show that the Sandisk has a radio but costs more (cos you have to buy 4x1Gb units to match the mini) and is less refined.

The Shuffle fulfils *it's* design critera well which is: Ease of use for people who want music while they play (workout, whatever..)

Honestly Dave, give them both to your wife for a week to use for the function they are designed for, offer no help whatsoever in PC setup, music purchase/transfer etc then see which one fulfils her requirements.

I would imagine her review would be a whole lot different to yours. You can't see the wood for the geek. :P

You're basing your whole negative opinion on a technical comparison which is flawed (compare Mini to Sandisk, not Shuffle.) and a misunderstanding of function (Shuffle is designed to be a low cost rugged piece of equipment for use in "outdoor" disciplines - the technical gadgetry that you see as missing, are in fact only more unnecesary complexity)

Thanks anyway for the review, even though it's negative (based on a wrong base assumption imo) overall it has convinced me to go Shuffle (my wife needs a player for hiking with) over other players because I "get Shuffle" now.

I should also tell you, I'm a PC user, I own one piece of Apple hardware (and my hardware collection is extensive) and that is a Gen 4 iPod (20Gb). Single best consumer electronics purchase I have made in my entire life.

Shuffle only *reinforces* my high opinion of Apple's innovation and ability to design for the needs of the *real-world* consumer.

The ipod shuffle will undoubtly outsell the sandisk though, just because of the apple brand. Since the ipod was such a hit that it became a modern social icon, the shuffle will sell well. They are already offering free ipod shuffles here: http://www.FreeiPodShuffle.com/?r=14789746 Honestly, the sandisk player deserves to outsell the ipod shuffle, but there is no way that will happen considering apples popularity

IMO Apple still wins hands down, why? Biggest reason is size, I'd rather have a thin player than a thick one like the Sans, I can feel a thick player in my pocket where I sometimes can't even tell if my shuffle is in my pocket or not. Also you need to carry around a wire to update the Sans, or transfer data, while in the apple it is part of the design. One of the reasons I wanted a small mp3 player was to use it as a flash drive also which defeats the meaning of "small" when you have to lug a wire around with you, which also might get lost.
Another reason is cost, i've been shopping around and the only time the Sans beats the shuffle in Price is when it has 256 megs less of memory, if it has equal memory well then it costs more.
Another scary one is build quality. I've owned almost every brand of flash drive made i think... And ONLY the Sans brand has broken on me, not by me dropping it, cracking it, leaving it on my dashboard, but it broke by a little piece on the inside coming loose. It's really scary when you hear something trashing around in your little flash drive with a whole lot of work on it.
Prob the only reason for me to get the Sans would be the screen itself, but honestly I never spend my time staring at my mp3 player, after the initial 2 weeks so having a screen to me is merely a waste of battery power.
Even though I'd still say Apple wins hands down, If any other manufacturer made the mp3 player in question, I'd prob consider it more, having something break from the inside just doesn't warrent alot of confidence for me to buy from the company again.

The iPod disease has spread farther then you could imagine. From Wired magazine.
www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,66460,00.html?tw=rss.TOP

I got the Sandisk this week! Buying Ł15 Sony in the ear headphones really improved the sound quality from nasty lightweight bass and tinny treble, however it’s still a little bellow par on the mid range and detail. It will not matter in a noisy gym. I record and play music at 192 though you may as well record at 128 because of the lack in music quality. Using the graphic equalizer doesn’t help much beyond setting the two bass extensions one up from flat (any more and its too heavy). The whole package is still really impressive and more usable than the limited Apple Shuffle but I recommend spending more money on a Creative or proper music brand like Sony. My Score: 3/5

Wow! What a diverse group. From Apple can do no wrong to almost Apple hatred. anyway, this is an excellent review. Exactly what I was looking for.....

Here I am in shanghai on business with a little time to look for a MP3 player and I find this review. Quite timely. Here are a couple of points:

The shuffle in person is bigger than I expected and QUITE expensive here.

The lack of screen IS an issue since every other MP3 player in its price range has one. Yes, I want to see which playlist I am selecting.

Memory size at 512 and 1G is correct.

The easy integration with iTunes is the ONLY differentiator for the shuffle.

Since I am starting to use Virgin to find music I cannot find on iTunes. I am not totally dependant on iTunes. so, I am not opposed to go with Sandisk which to me have some better features for less money.

I did find a player that I that Apple should have done: the DEC MP3 . It only had two issues against it. It only supported Chinese and lack of larger memory size. However, Physical size and style-wise it is FANTASTIC.... Much smaller than both sandisk and shuffle.

mp3.thethirdmedia.com/pc/200501/20050117125511.shtm

Bottom line, the shuffle does not stack up against its competition. This is Apple's first mistake in a while.

No it cant that would be great if it did.

This may be a bit simplistic, but I don't consider a device truly portable if you have to plug it into the mains or a computer to charge it up! I wouldn't buy a digital camera that couldn't take AA's and I wouldn't buy an MP3 player that didn't take AAA's.

Incidentally, does anyone know if the Sandisk will record from the radio. I'd like to be able to do this, and although there are plenty of other MP3 players that do, not many are as neat, IMHO.

How is the carrying case and armband on this baby? Can someone provide pics please?

Dave is 100% correct. The Shuffle, while cheap, has no features to speak of except iTunes Store purchase playability.

As a long term Mac user (since 1988) I am shocked that Apple has the gall to introduce such a lackluster product. I'm even more shocked that so many people want to purchase this product, given it's shortcomings. Wake up people, Emperor Steve has no clothes!

Stop getting caught up in the hype and use your heads!

How the heck ddoes Steve Jobs convince people that no screen is better than having a screen. It really is incredible. And that guessing which playlist you want to play is better than actually being able to see the 6 different playlists that you have loaded. Seriously that is amazing.

Also hands down the killer feature of the Sandisk. For $15/ month and Napster I can load any of a million songs they have to offer. That is cool.

By far the sound is better on the Sandisk than the shuffle. That is only my opinion but I think since the Sandisk player has an EQ it helps with the user preferences.

Ken wrote"Have you had a chance to compare sound quality between the two units?"
No but PCMag did sort of - http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1753026,00.asp

Have you had a chance to compare sound quality between the two units? I'd rather have the designers concentrate on sound quality before they get too excited about adding features. I'd like to read an audiophile review of the two devices with careful measures of frequency response, THD, etc. If there is a significant difference in sound quality, this would drive my choice.

People, remember this is just another scenario for people who cant get the shuffle due to the demand. This is a definite option for those people. Remember I am not taking shots at Apple which I said in the article. I did purchase a stocked mini because it fits my needs

Take the Shuffle for what it is - I'm going to get one because I need an USB key.

My first MP3 player was the first Creative MUVO. It was incredibly small and had no display, but the sound was awesome.

I returned it the shop because it only held about 15 songs, but I really liked its simplicity and sound quality.

After a period with iRiver I now have an iPod mini and enjoy browsing and shopping in iTMS.

I'm going to get a 1GB Shuffle because, in order of importance:
- I need an USB storage key to transport data
- It reminds me of my first Creative MUVO
- It is compatible with iTunes and iTMS

When the Motorola phone with iTunes support come out, I will probably get one of those as well.

The SanDisk are selling extremely well and looks like an attractive product, however having chosen to invest in iTMS, iPods and Airport Express, I'm limited in my choices. If a product don't support AAC I'm not interested.

"MY UNIT EVEN SHOWS ME THE BITRATE."
Wow, that's incredible!
Now tell me why anyone would be interested to look at the song's bitrate on an mp3 player?

Mow you are incorrect totally. I have this unit and play higher bitrates all the time. MY UNIT EVEN SHOWS ME THE BITRATE. Sorry Apple you lose this one!

I was looking into the 256MB Sandisk player today. I assume the ONLY difference between the 256MB and the one gig player is the memory... Anyway, I couldn't find any info at all regarding the extent of the mp3 playing capabilities, so I called Sandisk tech support.
I was told quite confidently that the SANDISK BITRATE MUST BE 128K OR LESS and no variable bit rate (which makes sense because they are usually higher than 128K most of the time). For this reason, I passed.

This doesn't nullify the argument that the iPod Shuffle is a little weak, but try comparing it to a Creative Labs or iRiver product, just for consistency.

Wasn't your wife supposed to use this mp3 player while jogging on the treadmill? Why would she want a screen for that? That's just retarded! She will fall off and hurt herself if she tries to operate the mp3 player and looking at the screen while running on a treadmill! A shuffle is great for workout, daily walks to the job and stuff like that, you don't need a screen for that. For occasions when you really need a screen, there are bigger iPods out there.

I don't really like the iPod Shuffle at first, but now I'm thinking about getting one because its plastic finish seems like spill-proof. I'm getting one for me to play music in my bathroom so that I can switch songs even when my hands' wet or when water splash... I don't think other MP3 players in the market is splash-proof.

Oh.. I forgot then they will mysteriously add a display to the shuffle and add another $50.00 to the price.

80 GB - You bet. An 80 gig HD would allow Audiophiles to use less compression or higher sample rates and still have a decent number of songs. It should happen this year. Like computers drive/memory size will continue to grow and people will find a use for it.

I agree totally! Look at the MacMini what a brilliant computer! I just think they are riding the iPOD wave too long.. Whats next an iPOD with 80 gig HD?

Apple has done some great things (namely iTunes and the HD based iPod), but this is not one of them. I'm surprised Apple released this under the iPod brand. Apples Prides themselves on usability and design and this falls way short. It is severely lacking compared to almost any other brand of flash player on the market. Even my 2 year old iRiver has a screen and FM tuner. Why would you leave a screen off a player that is capable of storing over 200 songs?

Apple would have you believe that being able to shuffle music is a mystical experience.

That being said, mediocre products have won in the past and I suspect the Shuffle is going to sell like crazy simply by carrying the iPod name.

First:
Almost Twice bigger and twice heavier is still something.
Even if both are light, having something half the size is STILL half the size. Rest is personal preference.

Eg, my perfect player is ipod mini. Its too expensive, not so much bigger nor heavier and has a display/etc.

Then, there are free AAC encoders:
http://www.audiocoding.com/modules/wiki/?page=FAAC

As you can see AAC Patents are the SAME as MP3 Patents. So mp3's free ? So is AAC. (Strictly speaking, none are free, but do you feel restricted by mp3 patents ?)
Then just ogg's left

Thank You dbalch. Another person who judged based upon their own criteria and choose something other than the Apple and did not follow the heard. I bet dbalch is a Republican too!

I recently purchased the Sandisk 1 GB player and have been using it for about a month.

I only paid 119 for it after a $30 rebate from Sandisk.

It works very well, except it is locking up in shuffle mode. For now I'm playing the songs in consecutive order mode. For my listening habits, this is just as good a shuffle mode. I haven't had time to contact their tech support yet. Maybe I'm doing something wrong or maybe I have a lemon. I did contact tech support once about a menu navigation issue and they were pretty quick and friendly.

The iPod shuffle was announced about a week after I bought the Sandisk and at first I was ticked off that I hadn't heard about it before I bought the Sandisk. But then I heard the iPod has no display. No way could I buy a player with no display. The radio and voice recorder I could live without, but for me the display is crucial.

I really like the Sandisk. It's very easy to move songs in and out. I bought a 128MB Samsung Yepp a year ago and it didn't show up as a hard drive in Explorer. You had to use this horribly clunky and bizarre software to load songs. This was critically annoying, but I was spared when the player died after 9 months.

I love the Sandisk. When I find time, I'm going to call tech support and solve the shuffle problem one way or another.

.62 oz and 2.04 ci more! That’s just unbearable. How can SanDisk expect me to run or ski carrying an additional .62 oz and 2.04 ci. Give me a break. Those arguments remind me of people parking illegally at the gym to keep from having to walk an extra 100 yards to get inside the building just so they can go and run on a treadmill!! The extra .62 oz and 2.04 ci are not going to kill anyone. If it is, they have a lot more to be concerned about than the size and weight of an MP3 player.

My family and I currently have 5 different MP3 players, some are name brand, and others are not. As it happens, I do not own any Apple MP3 players. It is not because I am some Anti-Apple Creative Labs/SanDisk Loving Zealot? No! I based my choices upon my own criteria, price, features, availability, etc. My criteria will not match most others criteria. In fact, I like it that my criteria does not match the majority of people in the world. I want to be an individual, not a mindless sheep following the flock.

I might choose to write a review of one of these MP3 players some day. A review is a person’s perspective on a particular topic. Not everyone is going to agree with it. Like my grandfather used to say. “Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one. Some stink more than others. Get used to it cause there isn’t anything you can do about it.”

Dave wrote "Come on we are talking a couple ounces lighter. Also the device is smaller by far."

True Dave but the ipod weighs .78 oz the sandisk w/alkaline battery weighs 39.7 grams or 1.4 oz or 1.4/.78= 1.79 or 79% more than the ipod. Wow! there is a difference. If you replace the alkaline with an NiMH rechargeable battery it gets even worse.

As for size the ipod is 3.3"x.98"x.33"= 1.06 cubic inches. The sandisk is 2.96"x1.28"x.82"= 3.10 cubic inches. 3.1/1.06 = 2.92 or 192% bigger than the ipod. Wow! Now you might call that a significant difference too.
Now dave also said
"I know how apple consumers are and rarely find faults but I still think this is obvious."
It appears "obvious" that this statement could easily be pointed back at you given the above actual facts. Now size does matter. You might get less dubious features but for a really small amount of money you get a really small player. The ipod is almost 1/3 the size by volume of the Sandisk and about 1/2 the weight.

It's funny that you mention this specific player because that's the first thing I thought of when I was looking at the shuffle. I think, however there are a few key ingredients to making the perfect flash player: 512mb - 1gb size, built-in usb connector (like ipod), screen that shows what songs i'm listening to (that's a big part of mp3's in general), something smallish, FM tuner, USB 2.0 connectivity, no proprietary software or any software at all necessary, EQ, playlists.. is that too much to ask? Basically it's a USB 2.0 flash drive with a screen that plays mp3's... well.

The shuffle may meet some very specific needs. In my case I just ordered one to use while skiing. It's perfect, I think. Using my current iPod is a pain. The battery life at sub freezing temperatures is dismal, less than 2 hours. So you have to put it in a pocket as far deep in your clothing layers as possible. I haven't found any long underwear shirts with pockets. Now try to turn it off or adjust the volume, zippers, fumble, drop.

With the shuffle you can hang it from your neck next to your skin if you want. Retrieving it is matter of pulling on the lanyard and you will never drop it. Now for the ultimate in geekiness, use on of SkullCandy's helmets and you never have to retrieve the iPod as the volume control is at your chin. Even more geeky, with the SkullCandy you can connect your cell phone as well. :-)

John

Ouch!

No, no, no! Standards-based != non-proprietary!

Is AAC protected by patent? Yes! Do you need to buy a license to use AAC? Yes! Ergo, it is proprietary!

Vasili Jones if this product was so hyped by far. Apple plastered this release over all mediums tv, print, internet etc. But one problem.. You cant get it now and people are waiting up to 7 weeks for a product that Mr Jobs told was available immediately.

Comon we are talking a couple ounces lighter. Also the device is smaller by far. I know how apple consumers are and rarely find faults but I still think this is obvious.

Hmm, what's the weight of the Sandisk? Why don't I see it posted? The Shuffle it almost weightless, great for working out. Also, I sure won't be using that sandisk as a USB drive! Sorry Sanddisk, you lose.

Give me a break, this really isn't comparing apples to apples.

I'm glad Mr. Ciccone found the music player for him, but if this proves that the iPod is overhyped and overpriced, doesn't that mean that every other flash memory mp3 player out there except for the SanDisk is ALSO overhyped and overpriced? I don't hear anyone saying that, say, MuVo buyers are falling for marketing hype because they could get the SanDisk for cheaper. At least the Shuffle has iTunes integration, less weight, and a rechargable battery to differentiate it. Those poor MuVo users, when will they learn not to fall for the Creative marketing machine?

You're mixing up iTunes and the iTMS with the AAC format. The only things proprietary about iTunes is the FairPlay DRM applied to music files bought on the iTMS. The AAC format is NOT proprietary - it comes from the same committees that made up MP3. There are quite a few shareware packages that allow you to transer music to/from your iPod WITHOUT using iTunes or the iTMS.

Dave Wrote "I just think Apple could have added some more features like a display, playlists and EQ.. Why do you think they didnt?"

Apple probably looked at portable radio as really poor quality. I listen to my iPod to avoid radio. When digital radio is here then it will likely be added. A multi-line display in a really small player is tough to read. I suppose a song playing display would be nice but if you put the songs in there than you should know what it is. They probably looked at how most people use iPods & other small players and found shuffle and serial play were the most used. Playlists with 100+ songs are not real useful. EQ can be done in iTunes - right click.

No argument there. I just think Apple could have added some more features like a display, playlists and EQ.. Why do you think they didnt?

Nice review but I think that you missed the point.
It isn't just the iPod - it's the whole package and how it just plain works with little to no hassles. It's the ease of use, the lack of conflicts and the complete integration between the hardware and software. Is that what you get with other players?

Whats up with all of you. ITunes is proprietary plain and simple. What other devices let you copy ITune files to them other than the iPOD. NONE!

I still prefer the iPod product - it supports MPEG 4 - AAC format (not just the AAC + FairPlay DRM files from the ITMS). AAC is the standards-based successor to MP3 (unlike the proprietary Windows Media format) and creates smaller files with higher quality. It's even the basis for audio in the next gen DVDs. Player doesn't support it? Not gonna buy it. Sorry Sandisk.

Good point I am as geeky as they get so I can see where you are coming from.

I might note too Dave, Apple success isn't due to hype.

If people are buying the shuffle and other iPods, it's because it's the device that lets them play their iTMS bought music with the smallest amount of fuss, and because iTunes has allowed them easy entry into the world of digital music. It's really that simple. iTunes is what started the whole thing...not the iPod.

iTunes and the iPod line have been almost universally praised by everyone. It the techies that usually find fault with them...but the techies are a very small group in comparison with the people buying as a whole.

Do any of the major online music stores allow you to re-download?

Thats an honest question. I thought it was the nature of these services.

I cant redownload the songs though.

David...you should be able to play your purchased music on up to 5 PCs...

Btorbik...I have to same combination...smaller card and no sound suppression headphones.

Agreed! Anyone who invested that kind of money on an iPAQ gets all the functionality of a Mobile Media PocketPC.

I'm sticking with my iPAQ 4705, 2GB SD card and Pocket MP3 player. I have Bose noise suppression headphones for frequent flghts between NJ and California, and I wouldn't trade the combination for anything.

No I am really bummed with iTunes thats all. Why is it that if I purchased a song on one computer I cant login to my account from another computer and access the music I purchased?

Using the best and most popular online music store is a handicap?

Interesting thought.

Sure its a handicap if you want to be forced to use itunes.

I'd call that a handicap.

No unless you burn your itunes to CD then extract them to MP3 or WMV.. I have already done mine.

Can it natively play music from the most popular online music store, the iTunes Music Store?

zipzoomfly.com has it for $139 plus free shipping for the 1G version

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=384004&affiliate=yahoo

it does look really nice (feature wise).... my new Shuffle may become a gift for a friend and I may get one of these...

Sorry hmmmm If you search pricegrabber you will find it for $131 dollars. The ones listed are our affiliate links which helps the site continue to run and purchase products for review.

The sandisk player definitely wins in features. Of course, the 512MB model costs more than the 512MB iPod shuffle, and the 1GB is about the same price. However, one thing you don't mention is that the SanDisk player weighs 40 grams (with battery, but it doesn't do anything without a battery). This is about 2x as heavy as the iPod shuffle, and approaching half the weight of the iPod mini. The shuffle is .3 inches longer, but the sandisk is .3 inches wider and .5 inches thicker. So, although it looks a little smaller than the shuffle, it's just that it's slightly shorter. I think when it comes to size, you have to give the edge to the shuffle. Either way, 40 grams vs 22 grams is still comparing 2 tiny devices with lots of storage space for songs. For those who want to be a part of the iPod hype, the shuffle is the cheapest way to do it. For those who want a radio, voice recorder, and player in a small package, the sandisk is the obvious choice.

Interesting how the link on your own page for the Sandisk player is $164!

Yeah its weird. Thats why I thought this article would interesting. Why wait on lines to buy a shuffle when you can get more with the Sandisk. Hype is the key word.

I guess it's the usual business model - greed... When something gets popular you try to base everything on it to continue, and drop all of the original qualities - aesthetics, features, etc,.

Whoa...the Sandisk player looks terrific!